{"id":26451,"date":"2022-12-12T21:22:00","date_gmt":"2022-12-12T21:22:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.interfaithamerica.org\/?post_type=podcast&#038;p=26451"},"modified":"2023-08-22T20:42:43","modified_gmt":"2023-08-22T20:42:43","slug":"eck","status":"publish","type":"podcast","link":"https:\/\/www.interfaithamerica.org\/podcast\/eck\/","title":{"rendered":"Can people who worship differently find common ground?"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t<div data-elementor-type=\"wp-post\" data-elementor-id=\"26451\" class=\"elementor elementor-26451\" data-elementor-post-type=\"podcast\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-4d27a2b elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"4d27a2b\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-a31a247\" data-id=\"a31a247\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div data-dce-background-color=\"#EF747400\" class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-b4b01c1 elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"b4b01c1\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-button-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/www.interfaithamerica.org\/ia-eboo-patel\/\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-icon elementor-align-icon-left\">\n\t\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" width=\"8\" height=\"12\" viewBox=\"0 0 8 12\" fill=\"none\" class=\"arrow\"><path d=\"M7.55469 10.59L2.97469 6L7.55469 1.41L6.14469 -5.65703e-08L0.144687 6L6.14469 12L7.55469 10.59Z\" fill=\"#0053BB\" class=\"first\"><\/path><\/svg>\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">Interfaith America with Eboo Patel\u200b\u200b<\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-4d846ac elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"4d846ac\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<p class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">December 13, 2022<\/p>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-a84aa53 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"a84aa53\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h1 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Can people who worship differently find common ground?<\/h1>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-c1b0e8d elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"c1b0e8d\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Harvard professor Diana Eck researches America\u2019s diverse religious landscape and helped inspire an interfaith movement.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-032098f elementor-share-buttons--view-icon elementor-share-buttons--skin-flat elementor-share-buttons--color-custom elementor-share-buttons--shape-square elementor-grid-0 elementor-widget elementor-widget-share-buttons\" data-id=\"032098f\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"share-buttons.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-grid\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-grid-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"elementor-share-btn elementor-share-btn_facebook\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttabindex=\"0\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\taria-label=\"Share on facebook\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-share-btn__icon\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i class=\"fab fa-facebook\" aria-hidden=\"true\"><\/i>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-grid-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"elementor-share-btn elementor-share-btn_twitter\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttabindex=\"0\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\taria-label=\"Share on twitter\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-share-btn__icon\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i class=\"fab fa-twitter\" aria-hidden=\"true\"><\/i>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-grid-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"elementor-share-btn elementor-share-btn_linkedin\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttabindex=\"0\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\taria-label=\"Share on linkedin\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-share-btn__icon\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i class=\"fab fa-linkedin\" aria-hidden=\"true\"><\/i>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-grid-item\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\tclass=\"elementor-share-btn elementor-share-btn_email\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\trole=\"button\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\ttabindex=\"0\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\taria-label=\"Share on email\"\n\t\t\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-share-btn__icon\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<i class=\"fas fa-envelope\" aria-hidden=\"true\"><\/i>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section data-dce-background-color=\"#FBFBFB\" class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-55052b4 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"55052b4\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div data-dce-background-color=\"#CAEDF1\" class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-f386ea7\" data-id=\"f386ea7\" data-element_type=\"column\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;gradient&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-e3e2972 elementor-widget elementor-widget-html\" data-id=\"e3e2972\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"html.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<iframe height=\"200px\" width=\"100%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless src=\"https:\/\/player.simplecast.com\/5001b6c2-9dac-433d-9981-3f28d7161ec5?dark=false\"><\/iframe>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-inner-section elementor-element elementor-element-a586461 elementor-section-content-middle elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"a586461\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-inner-column elementor-element elementor-element-14b4ddb\" data-id=\"14b4ddb\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div data-dce-background-color=\"#92DCE5\" class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-7eec1c8 elementor-align-left elementor-widget__width-auto elementor-laptop-align-left elementor-tablet-align-center elementor-widget-mobile__width-inherit elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"7eec1c8\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-button-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/cdn.simplecast.com\/audio\/bc2d3e71-0e84-48d9-91b6-d98a891e9134\/episodes\/5001b6c2-9dac-433d-9981-3f28d7161ec5\/audio\/774395b7-e99c-4009-95a6-80f24f56057e\/default_tc.mp3?nocache\" target=\"_blank\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">Download<\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div data-dce-background-color=\"#92DCE5\" class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-8891615 elementor-align-left elementor-widget__width-auto elementor-laptop-align-left elementor-tablet-align-center elementor-widget-mobile__width-inherit elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"8891615\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-button-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/www.interfaithamerica.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Diana-Eck-Podcast-Discussion-Guide.pdf\" target=\"_blank\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">Discussion Guide<\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div data-dce-background-color=\"#92DCE5\" class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-d7b724b elementor-align-left elementor-widget__width-auto elementor-laptop-align-left elementor-tablet-align-center elementor-widget-mobile__width-inherit elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"d7b724b\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-button-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"#transcript\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">Transcript<\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-3877fea\" data-id=\"3877fea\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-32d3f1c elementor-widget elementor-widget-qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight\" data-id=\"32d3f1c\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"qodef-shortcode qodef-m highlight qodef-qi-highlight qodef-qi--has-appear  qodef-highlight-style--color\" >\n\tIn This Episode...<\/h2>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-d3cb8fa elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"d3cb8fa\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Diana Eck, a professor of Comparative Religion and Indian Studies at Harvard University, leads <a href=\"https:\/\/pluralism.org\/\">The Pluralism Project<\/a>, a research center that explores and interprets the religious dimensions of immigration; the growth of Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Jain, and Zoroastrian communities in the United States; and the issues of religious pluralism and American civil society. Nearly 25 years after Eboo cold-called her to discuss his idea for a new interfaith organization, they reflect on their shared commitment to pluralism.\u00a0<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section data-dce-background-color=\"#FBFBFB\" class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-19c0620 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"19c0620\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-98aac71\" data-id=\"98aac71\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-670f64b elementor-widget elementor-widget-qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight\" data-id=\"670f64b\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"qodef-shortcode qodef-m highlight qodef-qi-highlight qodef-qi--has-appear  qodef-highlight-style--color\" >\n\tAbout Diana L. Eck<\/h2>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-51f5ac0 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"51f5ac0\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Diana L. Eck is a scholar of religious studies who is Professor of Comparative Religion and Indian Studies at Harvard University, as well as a former faculty dean of Lowell House and the Director of The Pluralism Project at Harvard. Eck received the National Humanities Award from President Clinton and the National Endowment for the Humanities in 1998, the Montana Governor&#8217;s Humanities Award in 2003, and the Melcher Lifetime Achievement Award from the Unitarian Universalist Association in 2003. In 2005\u201306 she served as president of the American Academy of Religion.\u00a0<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-50 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-cae6ea9\" data-id=\"cae6ea9\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-7114833 elementor-widget elementor-widget-image\" data-id=\"7114833\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"image.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"512\" height=\"730\" src=\"https:\/\/www.interfaithamerica.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/12\/Diana-Eck-512x730.jpg\" class=\"attachment-article-hero size-article-hero wp-image-20123\" alt=\"\" \/>\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section data-dce-background-color=\"#FBFBFB\" class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-0a26f75 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"0a26f75\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-301562c\" data-id=\"301562c\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-fc69928 elementor-widget elementor-widget-qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight\" data-id=\"fc69928\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"qodef-shortcode qodef-m highlight qodef-qi-highlight qodef-qi--has-appear  qodef-highlight-style--color\" >\n\tSubscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.<\/h2>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-63b3f2e elementor-widget__width-auto elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"63b3f2e\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-button-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/podcasts.apple.com\/us\/podcast\/interfaith-america-with-eboo-patel\/id1648145713\" target=\"_blank\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-icon elementor-align-icon-left\">\n\t\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" xmlns:xlink=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/1999\/xlink\" width=\"250\" viewBox=\"0 0 187.5 187.499992\" height=\"250\" preserveAspectRatio=\"xMidYMid meet\"><defs><clipPath id=\"c88c629cd4\"><path d=\"M 10 2 L 178.074219 2 L 178.074219 165 L 10 165 Z M 10 2 \" clip-rule=\"nonzero\"><\/path><\/clipPath><clipPath id=\"2dc4167b25\"><path d=\"M 73 105 L 114 105 L 114 185.484375 L 73 185.484375 Z M 73 105 \" clip-rule=\"nonzero\"><\/path><\/clipPath><\/defs><g clip-path=\"url(#c88c629cd4)\"><path fill=\"#9531c7\" d=\"M 11.921875 101.6875 C 13.65625 109.734375 16.441406 117.425781 20.398438 124.648438 C 29.109375 140.605469 43.152344 153.46875 59.757812 160.914062 C 62.777344 162.292969 65.921875 163.445312 69.050781 164.484375 C 68.242188 161.15625 67.539062 157.71875 66.960938 154.375 C 66.851562 153.339844 66.609375 152.308594 66.492188 151.386719 C 64.632812 150.59375 62.898438 149.785156 61.15625 148.992188 C 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59.082031 L 93.539062 59.242188 C 82.214844 59.242188 73.054688 68.320312 73.054688 79.449219 C 73.054688 90.582031 82.222656 99.652344 93.539062 99.652344 C 104.839844 99.652344 114.019531 90.582031 114.019531 79.34375 C 114.027344 68.144531 104.847656 59.082031 93.539062 59.082031 Z M 93.539062 59.082031 \" fill-opacity=\"1\" fill-rule=\"nonzero\"><\/path><path fill=\"#9531c7\" d=\"M 133.476562 67.625 C 135.199219 71.53125 136.382812 75.660156 136.957031 79.910156 C 137.644531 84.730469 137.421875 89.542969 136.484375 94.136719 C 135.667969 98.277344 134.160156 102.296875 132.183594 105.964844 C 129.511719 110.902344 125.914062 115.265625 121.617188 118.707031 C 121.84375 119.621094 122.082031 120.421875 122.195312 121.34375 C 122.554688 123.71875 122.554688 126.128906 122.554688 128.539062 L 122.480469 132.125 L 121.601562 132.933594 C 131.121094 127.304688 138.902344 118.699219 143.425781 108.707031 C 145.761719 103.769531 147.265625 98.492188 147.960938 93.097656 C 148.769531 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82.320312 50.320312 77.957031 C 51.136719 73.714844 52.519531 69.6875 54.507812 65.902344 C 56.828125 61.203125 60.078125 57.070312 64.035156 53.515625 C 67.984375 49.960938 72.511719 47.207031 77.390625 45.253906 C 82.84375 43.1875 88.773438 42.148438 94.578125 42.261719 C 100.382812 42.386719 106.191406 43.757812 111.53125 46.046875 C 116.410156 48.234375 120.707031 51.21875 124.539062 54.886719 C 128.253906 58.566406 131.277344 62.929688 133.476562 67.625 Z M 133.476562 67.625 \" fill-opacity=\"1\" fill-rule=\"nonzero\"><\/path><g clip-path=\"url(#2dc4167b25)\"><path fill=\"#9531c7\" d=\"M 93.539062 105.609375 C 82.324219 105.609375 73.214844 114.625 73.214844 125.695312 C 73.214844 185.148438 93.539062 185.148438 93.539062 185.148438 C 93.539062 185.148438 113.859375 185.148438 113.859375 125.695312 C 113.859375 114.625 104.757812 105.609375 93.539062 105.609375 Z M 93.539062 105.609375 \" fill-opacity=\"1\" fill-rule=\"nonzero\"><\/path><\/g><\/svg>\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">Apple<\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-afa9b69 elementor-widget__width-auto elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"afa9b69\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-button-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/3VEezNzW3y1x5CVoBNR5RY?si=96a72d5ea7424ddc&#038;nd=1\" target=\"_blank\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-icon elementor-align-icon-left\">\n\t\t\t\t<svg xmlns=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg\" xmlns:xlink=\"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/1999\/xlink\" width=\"250\" viewBox=\"0 0 187.5 187.499992\" height=\"250\" preserveAspectRatio=\"xMidYMid meet\"><defs><clipPath id=\"e10b623734\"><path d=\"M 3.578125 3.578125 L 183.578125 3.578125 L 183.578125 183.578125 L 3.578125 183.578125 Z M 3.578125 3.578125 \" clip-rule=\"nonzero\"><\/path><\/clipPath><\/defs><g clip-path=\"url(#e10b623734)\"><path fill=\"#1ed760\" d=\"M 93.578125 3.578125 C 43.796875 3.578125 3.578125 43.902344 3.578125 93.578125 C 3.578125 143.359375 43.902344 183.578125 93.578125 183.578125 C 143.359375 183.578125 183.578125 143.253906 183.578125 93.578125 C 183.578125 43.902344 143.253906 3.578125 93.578125 3.578125 Z M 134.867188 133.46875 C 133.253906 136.160156 129.8125 136.910156 127.121094 135.296875 C 105.9375 122.394531 79.378906 119.492188 47.980469 126.589844 C 44.96875 127.234375 41.960938 125.40625 41.3125 122.398438 C 40.667969 119.386719 42.496094 116.378906 45.503906 115.730469 C 79.804688 107.886719 109.261719 111.214844 132.921875 125.734375 C 133.242188 125.921875 133.539062 126.140625 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33.035156 71.75 31.636719 67.339844 C 30.242188 62.929688 32.820312 58.199219 37.230469 56.800781 C 69.058594 47.125 121.960938 49.058594 155.296875 68.84375 C 159.277344 71.207031 160.566406 76.371094 158.199219 80.347656 C 156.050781 84.433594 150.78125 85.726562 146.800781 83.359375 Z M 146.800781 83.359375 \" fill-opacity=\"1\" fill-rule=\"nonzero\"><\/path><\/g><\/svg>\t\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">Spotify<\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section data-dce-background-color=\"#FBFBFB\" class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-4a989df elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"4a989df\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-8202795\" data-id=\"8202795\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-320b509 elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"320b509\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Related Articles<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"dce-dynamic-posts-collection dce-fix-background-loop elementor-element elementor-element-7717c6a dce-posts-layout-default dce-col-4 dce-col-tablet-3 dce-col-mobile-1 dce-align-left elementor-widget elementor-widget-dce-dynamicposts-v2\" data-id=\"7717c6a\" data-element_type=\"widget\" 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Women?<\/a><\/h3><\/div>\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/article>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section data-dce-background-color=\"#FBFBFB\" class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-bca3de4 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"bca3de4\" data-element_type=\"section\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-d2750cf\" data-id=\"d2750cf\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-inner-section elementor-element elementor-element-2f06a0f elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"2f06a0f\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div data-dce-background-overlay-color=\"#06514300\" data-dce-background-image-url=\"https:\/\/www.interfaithamerica.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/11\/pexels-ketut-subiyanto-4559978-scaled.jpg\" class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-inner-column elementor-element elementor-element-e829ec7\" data-id=\"e829ec7\" data-element_type=\"column\" data-settings=\"{&quot;background_background&quot;:&quot;classic&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-background-overlay\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-3f04b1e elementor-widget elementor-widget-qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight\" data-id=\"3f04b1e\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"qodef-shortcode qodef-m highlight qodef-qi-highlight qodef-qi--has-appear  qodef-highlight-style--color\" >\n\tEngagement Award<\/h2>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-1336bc2 elementor-widget elementor-widget-text-editor\" data-id=\"1336bc2\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"text-editor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<p>Receive funding for your own intentional reflection or for hosting conversations about the podcast.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div data-dce-background-color=\"#FFFFFF\" class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-095c96b elementor-align-left elementor-widget elementor-widget-button\" data-id=\"095c96b\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"button.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-button-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t<a class=\"elementor-button elementor-button-link elementor-size-sm\" href=\"https:\/\/www.interfaithamerica.org\/grants\/podcast-award\/\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-content-wrapper\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<span class=\"elementor-button-text\">Learn more<\/span>\n\t\t<\/span>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/a>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t<\/section>\n\t\t\t\t<section class=\"elementor-section elementor-top-section elementor-element elementor-element-9ffd9a0 elementor-section-boxed elementor-section-height-default elementor-section-height-default\" data-id=\"9ffd9a0\" data-element_type=\"section\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-container elementor-column-gap-default\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-column elementor-col-100 elementor-top-column elementor-element elementor-element-c7f45a5\" data-id=\"c7f45a5\" data-element_type=\"column\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-wrap elementor-element-populated\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-2395d30 elementor-widget elementor-widget-menu-anchor\" data-id=\"2395d30\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"menu-anchor.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div id=\"transcript\" class=\"elementor-menu-anchor\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-00bef0c elementor-widget elementor-widget-heading\" data-id=\"00bef0c\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"heading.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<p class=\"elementor-heading-title elementor-size-default\">Can people who worship differently find common ground?\u200b<\/p>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-63bbf02 elementor-widget elementor-widget-qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight\" data-id=\"63bbf02\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-widget_type=\"qi_addons_for_elementor_highlight.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t<h2 class=\"qodef-shortcode qodef-m highlight qodef-qi-highlight qodef-qi--has-appear  qodef-highlight-style--color\" >\n\tTranscript<\/h2>\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-element elementor-element-4475ddd elementor-widget elementor-widget-jet-unfold\" data-id=\"4475ddd\" data-element_type=\"widget\" data-settings=\"{&quot;mask_height&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;px&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:200,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;unfold_easing&quot;:&quot;linear&quot;,&quot;fold_easing&quot;:&quot;linear&quot;,&quot;mask_height_laptop&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;px&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:200,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;mask_height_tablet&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;px&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:303,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;mask_height_tablet_extra&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;px&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;mask_height_mobile&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;px&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;unfold_duration&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;ms&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:500,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;fold_duration&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;ms&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:300,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]}}\" data-widget_type=\"jet-unfold.default\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"elementor-widget-container\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"jet-unfold \" data-settings=\"{&quot;height&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;px&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:200,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;separatorHeight&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;px&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;unfoldDuration&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;ms&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:500,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;foldDuration&quot;:{&quot;unit&quot;:&quot;ms&quot;,&quot;size&quot;:300,&quot;sizes&quot;:[]},&quot;unfoldEasing&quot;:&quot;linear&quot;,&quot;foldEasing&quot;:&quot;linear&quot;,&quot;foldScrolling&quot;:&quot;true&quot;,&quot;hideOutsideClick&quot;:&quot;false&quot;,&quot;autoHide&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;autoHideTime&quot;:&quot;&quot;}\">\n\t\t\t<div class=\"jet-unfold__inner\">\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"jet-unfold__mask\">\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"jet-unfold__content\">\n\t\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"jet-unfold__content-inner elementor-text-editor elementor-clearfix\"><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eboo Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">:\u00a0This is the Interfaith America Podcast, and I&#8217;m Eboo Patel. <\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">[music]<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Some people motivate you, some challenge you, and some invite you in. Professor Diana Eck has done all three for me, and as one of the people who laid the foundations for religious pluralism in the 1990s, her work is a pillar that Interfaith America is founded on. Diana Eck is a scholar of religious studies, and professor of comparative religions and Indian studies at Harvard University. She is the founder of The Pluralism Project, and I am so pleased to have a friend, colleague, and really mentor, Professor Diana Eck with me for the Interfaith America Podcast.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I have to take a moment of personal privilege and just talk about my relationship with\u00a0Professor Eck. Back in 1999, I was in Boston for a couple of weeks over the summer. The idea of Interfaith Youth Core had hit me some months before that, and it hadn&#8217;t really gotten a ton of traction yet. I&#8217;d been reading the books of this wonderful professor of Indian Studies and religious diversity at Harvard, Diana Eck, her \u201cEncountering God\u201d was a seminal text in the field over the past 30 years, later a book called \u201cA New Religious America.\u201d On a lark I called her up, and I said, &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;ve got this idea for an interfaith organization that engages young people, and that centers social action, can I come see you?&#8221;<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">She had my colleague and me, Jennifer Peace and I over to Lowell House at Harvard for tea with her partner, Dorothy Austin. I remember that moment by moment because of how encouraging Professor Eck was, and how she took the intellectual and civic project of Interfaith Youth Core seriously\u00a0when it was barely formed, actually barely even born. The encouragement of people you admire early in the formation of something is irreplaceable. Professor Eck provided that for me. It is just very moving to have you on this podcast. Thank you for who you are. Thank you for the way you have shaped this field in so many ways. We live in the world that you imagined and built. Thank you, Diana.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Diana Eck:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\"> Thank you, Eboo. I remember that\u00a0day very well if I can say just a word about it because, I had been engaged personally in interfaith work, mainly internationally through work with the World Council of Churches unit on dialogue with people of Living Faith, but what I began to feel was that it was mostly all of us older folks. And, uh, we saw each other in various wonderful places where we had interfaith conferences and whatnot, but it was the same\u00a0people, and I thought, &#8220;We need something really new, something that engages young people.&#8221; That&#8217;s what you imagined, and that&#8217;s what you built. It is just a matter of real pride to think that those words of encouragement grew into what you have created. Thank you too.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: I love the friendship and the partnership. So, let&#8217;s in some ways begin at the beginning. How is it that you get interested in religious diversity issues?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: I grew up in the mountains of Montana. I was in a good, non-abusive Methodist church that had a lot of social action involved, and it was cultural diversity that was the first thing. I hardly knew anyone who wasn&#8217;t of one of the Christian stripes at that point. As a Methodist Youth Fellowship, we had a work camp with native people on the Black Feet Reservation where we lived in Teepees, and helped restore a church. We hada work camp where we took an old school bus to Mexico and worked for summer building a silo on a UNESCO development farm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">These were things that were connected with my faith, but also things that brought me into contact with people who were quite different from the folks I grew up with in Bozeman. I think the real energy came out of the Civil Rights Movement, and I was in college in New England at Smith College, but feeling a little restless, I thought, &#8220;I really want to do some sort of study abroad,&#8221; and I found a poster that advertised a program in India. I didn&#8217;t know much about India at all, but I thought, &#8220;This is probably what I want to do.&#8221; I applied, I went to India, and that was really the beginning of the rest of the journey, to tell you the truth.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I was in a very important sacred city in India, the city of Benares\u00a0at Banaras Hindu University I saw there a level of faith and religious practice that was quite different from my own, and that interested me a great deal. I started learning a bit about Hindu life through the people that I knew, and met there, and through those who made their practice bathing in the Ganges every morning.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I&#8217;m not a person who prays standing waist deep in a river, but I understood partly because of my own faith, what was happening. That really got me interested in the study of India, which takes many lifetimes, I will say, but also particularly the study of Hinduism with so many different branches, and so many different gods, and so many different ways of talking about the divine that I decided I would pursue that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I went back to college for my senior year, I switched from political science to religion, and then got a Fulbright to go to the School of Oriental and African Studies in London. That was another important moment, because there I really studied history, and sociology, and economics. They didn&#8217;t have so much about religion either, but it was a way of confirming that this was an academic field that was worth pursuing, so that was the start.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: It&#8217;s so much fun to hear you narrate that in this way, and, of course, I&#8217;m familiar with it because of our friendship over a quarter century, and also because of your book, \u201cEncountering God,\u201d which was, it was just so shaping, and in a lot of ways, my book, Acts of Faith is kind of modeled after that. I remember the details of that book, I remember you walking into a Hindu temple and saying, &#8220;You pour yogurt over the gods?&#8221; And somebody looking at you and saying, &#8220;You don&#8217;t take your shoes off in a house of worship?&#8221; It&#8217;s this beautiful encounter in which people are surprised and delighted indifference right, and I think that delight, and that engagement is at the heart of pluralism.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Yes. I had questions for the people I knew who were Hindu, and who honored their gods with yogurt, and saffron, and flowers, and orange juice, et cetera, but they had questions for me too, and that sense of mutual engagement was really important.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Yes. Let me switch continents for a moment here, you and I both know plenty of scholars and intellectuals. They get interested in diversity elsewhere, and their mind and heart lives in India, or Northern Africa, et cetera, but you take the lens of interest in religious diversity back here to the United States in the 1990s. Can you tell us the story of how you get interested in religious diversity here in the United States?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Yes. I was, like many people, teaching a course on world religions, you might say, at Harvard, and along about &#8217;89, &#8217;90, &#8217;91, I started having a lot of students in that course\u00a0who were not native-born Americans who parents had come from India, or from Jordan, or other places, and they were also in this class. We began to realize that difference was not just something we looked at around the world in a global sense, but right in our own classroom. That was basically my awakening to the fact that the 1965 Immigration and Nationalities Act had actually brought to the U.S. people who were from the religious communities I had known and studied in India.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">By the 1990s, their kids were in college, and they were enrolled in my classes. I realized that I didn&#8217;t know much about how America had changed, and at the same time, I was made aware of the fact that there was a Hindu temple being built in the suburbs of Boston. I had seen lots of Hindu temples in India, I used to say I&#8217;d been in more Hindu temples than any living Methodist, but it was news to me that there was a temple going up in Boston really from the ground up. I went out there, I followed the building, and eventually the dedication of that temple, and have been more or less part of that wider temple community ever since, but that got me interested in asking what was going on in the United States.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I started with a seminar that had divinity students, a few undergraduates, et cetera, where we took as our project to figure out who was who in the Boston area. Students divided into teams,\u00a0and went to a couple of different Hindu communities. They went to Islamic centers, and there were a lot of them by that time, they went to some of the Cambodian and Vietnamese temples that had been created in makeshift quarters, mostly by refugees. We began to get a picture of what the religious diversity of Boston looked like. Over the years, we did repeat that seminar from time to time, and students\u00a0really loved the challenge of being on the front lines of research and figuring out what the local scene was like.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That was the awakening of this. That was in the early 1990s, and I realized that what was happening in Boston was no doubt happening elsewhere. I got a small grant from people at the Lilly Foundation who were mostly interested in the Protestant mainstream, but I seemed to be a Protestant mainstream person. I seemed to be reliable. I used that grant to enable students, because this was really a student-run research project to apply to go to places in their own life, to Oklahoma City, to Minneapolis, to the Bay Area, and do some footwork and research is what was happening there. The student who went to Minneapolis, it had been his hometown. He had lived there all his life, and suddenly he found aspects of Minneapolis that were simply unknown to him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">This was all, I&#8217;d say in the mid-1990s, and we have to remember that Netscape Navigator and all that&#8217;s given us access to didn&#8217;t even come online\u00a0until the mid-&#8217;90s really. All of this was the work that goes when people ask one another, &#8220;Well, are there any other Islamic centers in this area?&#8221; It was all word of mouth, but we continued doing that research when we had access to the internet, and when it was easier to figure out who is who. That was the beginning, it was a piece-by-piece\u00a0summer project that also involved repeated conferences and gatherings of students who had been involved.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: I have to say a piece here, I was not smart enough to be an undergraduate in one of Professor Eck&#8217;s Harvard seminars in the mid-1990s, but I was a student at the time. I was a student at the University of Illinois, and I was the exact student that you are talking about, Diana. My parents were immigrants in the early 1970s to the United States as part of the 1965 Immigration Act. I grew up as an Ismaili Muslim. We\u2019re excellent institution builders, as you well know, from jamatkhanas, to summer camps, to hospitals and universities. I grow up, at least partially, within the civic infrastructure of the Ismaili Muslim community. I get to college, I start to do an awful lot of diversity work in the early mid-1990s at the University of Illinois.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">At some point I realize that it&#8217;s all about race, gender, and sexuality, super important things, and where&#8217;s religion? Religion was actually an important part of my formation. Religion was clearly an important part in the world. Sam Huntington had just written the \u201cClash of Civilizations,\u201d et cetera, et cetera, and religion, and now I&#8217;m quoting you, is the missing R word in the diversity discussion. You are the person who brings that into diversity work in the 1990s, and you do it so gently, and there&#8217;s so many ways in which, again, you have cultivated a field that we, meaning Interfaith America, and lots of other people have built institutions in.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">This notion of curiosity and inquiry rather than judgment. Let&#8217;s find out what these folks are up to, and take it seriously, and ask the question. These are the key questions with the Pluralism Project, how is America changing them, and how are they changing America, and how can we be in positive relationship? The other thing that you do is you take campuses and young people and students seriously, and that&#8217;s so much about what the Interfaith Youth Core was about in its first 20 years, and still, as Interfaith America, it&#8217;s a huge part of what we continue to be about. Campuses can be cathedrals of pluralism. Students can be researchers, can be leaders.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">You are the one who sets so much of that up. I read about all of this in \u201cEncountering God.\u201d Again, it&#8217;s fun to be able to talk about this with you, but I want people to know, principally, you to know, Diana, just how influential, how formational this all is in the 1990s, and what it builds towards, and you build an institution. You build a Pluralism Project, which sends student researchers out summer over summer, run seminars, creates resources on diverse religious communities and their institutions across the nation, et cetera, et cetera, and you develop a methodology at the Pluralism Project that I want to\u00a0dig into a little bit, which is the case study methodology.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Of course, it&#8217;s a methodology used in medical schools, and business schools, but it&#8217;s not typically used in diversity work. You bring it into diversity work. One of the things that I love about the case study methodology is that it puts the reader into a position of leadership. It presents a problem, and it says, &#8220;What would you do if you encountered this?&#8221; Tell us a little bit about the case study methodology, and why it&#8217;s important for diversity and religious diversity work.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: I think the first thing is that I truly believe that diversity work is best done locally. There&#8217;s a lot of national and global import that can be given, and certainly, your work, for example, with the religious communities during the Obama administration is an example of that. Most of the things that people will encounter in trying to face the dilemmas of a multi-religious society are quite local. Over the years, partly through our own research, we found a number of those places where the dilemmas of a multi-religious society have been presented to all sorts of civic institutions.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Literally, every civic institution, from town councils, city councils, zoning boards, university administrations, hospitals, schools, public schools. These are the places where we find problems that we didn&#8217;t really know before. I don&#8217;t want to focus only on the problems, but the problems are the places where our minds are stretched to try to figure out what to do. The case study\u00a0method is basically presenting a dilemma that the people, the main interlocutor, the main protagonist has never really thought about before, and so, you have to think in a new way. They give us examples of how this is happening in the society that is as diverse as ours.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">A good example is from\u00a0the little town, very dense town, immigrant town of Hamtramck in Michigan as part of the wider penumbra of Detroit. A place that had been the home of immigrants one generation after another, had a large Polish Catholic population, and then gradually, Bangladeshi and Yemeni Muslims who came to Hamtramck, and began to grow quite significantly.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The dilemma is, how does the head of the city council begin to deal with the fact that the Muslim communities would like to have a public audible broadcast of their call to prayer, and something that would happen five times a day, and would gather the Muslim community together? You can&#8217;t necessarily\u00a0do this in a city like Boston because the community is spread out. It wouldn&#8217;t make sense to broadcast the call to prayer, but in Hamtramck, it would be exactly what makes sense to let people know this is the time to engage in prayer, or to come to the masjid for prayer.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">There were Polish Catholic women and older and younger immigrants from the Polish community who just couldn&#8217;t understand and couldn&#8217;t begin to deal with the fact that the name of another God would be sounded into their neighborhood, into their living room, into their ears, and didn&#8217;t know how they were going to keep this out. It was really a very delicate and difficult situation. As happens in many of these, the town council met, and they met again, and neighbors came, and they sounded off in all sorts of directions. &#8220;What about the church bells? Aren&#8217;t they pretty much the same as the call to prayer?&#8221;<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">These are the questions that the class, not just the head of the city council, but the members of our class have on the table in front of them. They have to figure out what they would do if they were the protagonist in this place, how they would\u00a0listen to members of the different communities, what might be a proposed solution. In many of these cases, there is no permanent solution.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">These are ongoing issues of relationship, but the example, it gives us a sense that we are in the middle of a dilemma, and it&#8217;s our dilemma as well. It may not be Hamtramck, it may be a zoning issue somewhere else where neighbors are not sure about the very seemingly expensive and elaborate Hindu temple that&#8217;s going up in a farm not far from them, or where they&#8217;re uncertain about what traffic will mean in a city where the Muslim community has put in a bid to buy a former church that had been for sale, or they&#8217;re not very sure about what the Native\u00a0American land-based religion feels like, both to those people for whom land, like Devils Tower in Wyoming, what that means to them.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Then, you have on the other side, the rock climbers who love Devils Tower because it&#8217;s some of the best rock climbing in the United States, and they think of that form of living as their religion. We have a lot of things to learn about one another, but one of the times that we are thrust into the position of learning is when there&#8217;s a problem. I say problem, it could say dilemma, something that we haven&#8217;t really faced before, but we need to figure out what a good solution would be for everyone. <\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: I need to underscore why I love this so much, and it has become the principal paradigm through which I look at diverse democracy. It is how we ought to think about building a multicultural nation. I&#8217;ll say a little bit more about that. One is, it&#8217;s not samosas and egg rolls diversity, it&#8217;s not everything you like. It&#8217;s not this kind of elementary school version of diversity work. That&#8217;s number one.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Number two, in the dozens of cases\u00a0that you and the Pluralism Project have developed, you take great care to take seriously the world views of the disputes, or the participants, or the interlocutors. You don&#8217;t dismiss out of hand the mountain climbers whose practice is climbing that mountain. It is not an easy or a straightforward oppressor\/oppressed approach where you are immediately allied with one group because it&#8217;s so obvious.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Now, there are plenty of cases like that in the world. There are plenty of diversity cases in which it&#8217;s not right versus right, and where there is a profound and ugly power imbalance, but that&#8217;s not what you do, that&#8217;s not the most interesting part of diversity work. The most interesting part of diversity work is, if you&#8217;re a doctor at the bedside of a patient who is near transitioning into the next world and half of the patient&#8217;s family is Buddhist, and half of them are evangelical Christian, and the Buddhists are saying, &#8220;It is only when the breath stops that the person dies,&#8221; and the evangelical Christians are saying something else, what do you do?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It thrusts, in this case, 19- and 20-year olds into a position of leadership, like medical schools case studies, or business school case studies. What would you do? You are responsible. What do you do if you&#8217;re the mayor of Hamtramck? In many cases it&#8217;s, how do you shape the conversation?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Absolutely.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: It&#8217;s not just what decision you make. It is, how do you shape the conversation? John Courtney Murray, the great Jesuit philosopher says civilization is living and talking together. That is what we do in a pluralist civilization. The challenge is that it is only quite recently that people from different identities have had to live and talk together as relative equals. That&#8217;s what the case study method, I think it is the chief methodology we use at Interfaith America. We, of course, credit you with that, and secondly, it is the manner in which I think about diverse democracy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">I want to actually turn to wider conversations about diverse democracy and how we think about diversity work here. One of the things that you were so successful at in the 1990s was introducing religion into the diversity conversation. It influenced a wide range of people, including myself. In \u201cA New Religious America,\u201d you say something that I now quote ad nauseam, which is the United States is the most religiously diverse nation in human history. That is a stunning fact, and yet in 2022, for all of the DEI workshops that happened from literally kindergarten to Fortune 100 companies, religion is not really a central part for all of my efforts and yours.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">The pendulum could swing again, the paradigm could turn, but in the most religiously diverse nation in human history, at a time of religious tension and conflict around the world, in a nation in which religious communities provide something like half the social capital of the country, quoting your colleague and friend, and one of my mentors, Robert Putnam, there&#8217;s relatively little talk about religious identity and diversity in diversity work. I&#8217;m curious what you think of that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Well, I think of it what you think of it, Eboo. You give me credit for introducing religion into the diversity conversation, and into the whole notion of E pluribus unum, which is our, out of many one people, not one religion, but one people. I&#8217;m disappointed, and it&#8217;s one of the things I still find appalling about diversity work now that diversity and belonging has become the buzzword of virtually every institution. But what they don&#8217;t address, and what I think they are not able really to address, and perhaps fearful of addressing in the endless workshops and programs about diversity, inclusion, and belonging is the topic of religion.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">For some, it&#8217;s because they find it too difficult. It does require a little bit of, I would say knowledge, as well as leadership to be able to bring religious diversity into the scope of diversity training, but what is diversity training if the people who are involved know almost nothing about the Sikh religious tradition, or about Islam and the many forms of Islam, or about what it means to be a refugee, an attempt to put down religious roots in a new place.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That&#8217;s a conversation that I think needs Interfaith America, let&#8217;s say Eboo, to begin making inroads, because it is true. Every time I see a diversity workshop at Harvard, I might peek in the door and see what they&#8217;re doing, but they do not talk about religion. Religion is part of the lives of our students, and part of the lives of our faculty. At least to a great extent, it is the missing link, and it is missing, of course, and it was one of the things that Madeleine Albright used to say as Secretary of State, it was the missing piece of our diplomacy as well.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Right. In a great book called \u201cThe Mighty and the Almighty,\u201d she said, famously, in a state department of thousands and thousands of people, I had at least hundreds, maybe thousands of economic experts at my fingertips, but exactly one person who knew anything about religion, the ambassador for religious freedom at a time in which she was dealing with the Balkans, and South Asia, and Northern Ireland,\u00a0she was like, the things I was dealing with all over the world were religious conflict.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Yes. She used to say she&#8217;d write in the margins of her notes at meetings, learn more about Islam, of course. John Kerry in that position said if he could go back and do it again, he would&#8217;ve majored in the comparative study of religion. It is a good basis for leadership in our society, and yet people are uncertain, I would say that&#8217;s part of it, about what it means to bring up this topic, we&#8217;re always told, &#8220;Well, you just don&#8217;t talk about religion.&#8221; Many of the leaders involved in diversity work have that anxiety, I would imagine. The other thing is that there hasn&#8217;t really been the knowledge of how religiously diverse we are.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Now, I give people credit for their ignorance, but I do say that when the Pluralism Project and our students were out over the 20 years in which we were actively doing research along with professors at other universities, et cetera, we were going out to actually look for the places that were becoming the new nodes of religious energy in our society. The mosques and Islamic centers, the Hindu temples, the Buddhist communities, the Sikh communities, the Bah\u00e1\u02bc\u00ed, et cetera. We wanted to find them, and they often were not in places that you would notice if you were just driving right by. They were in an old mattress factory in Northridge, California, or in a U-Haul dealership in Pawtucket, Rhode Island.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">There was a sense of not being aware, and gradually, as people became aware, a lot of them didn&#8217;t like it, and we see that today too. Although, I remember writing a op-ed piece for the Los Angeles Times back in the &#8217;90s about where we might see the flag on the 4th of July. I talked about places in Florida, and Hsi Lai Temple in Hacienda Heights, California, largest Buddhist temple in the Western Hemisphere at that point. I got quite a lot of response from people who said, &#8220;I didn&#8217;t know all these people were here. How did they get here? I don&#8217;t like it. I think they should go home.&#8221;<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: The same way your ancestors got here, in many cases.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: In some cases that is exactly what happened. They simply don&#8217;t know, and when they do know, they&#8217;re not sure about it at all. Then we have a very different take on our civic life, which is basically the rise of white Christian nationalism, which is probably the most difficult diversity issue that we face today, because it is the calling card of people who don&#8217;t like the diversity that the new immigration has brought, and have what you and I both know is a rather flawed understanding of our constitutional commitment to religious freedom, and the free exercise of religion.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: One of the things that I&#8217;ve been writing about recently, and I&#8217;m an optimist, I think we share this, and so I&#8217;m constantly, not only do I see the glass half full, but I&#8217;m constantly trying to find ways to fill it all the way up. One of the things that I&#8217;m very aware of is that the white Christian nationalist movement of 100 years ago, the most visible part of that is the KKK, but there&#8217;s many other forms of white Christian nationalism of the 1920s. It&#8217;s anti-Catholic, it&#8217;s anti-Black, it&#8217;s antisemitic, it&#8217;s anti-immigration and anti-diversity, et cetera.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Is the response to that, the interfaith response in the form of the NCCJ, the National Conference for Christians and Jews formed in the late 1920s, really as a response to the KKK, that that creates a better paradigm, as you would say, a wider sense of we, and they run civic projects in the same way that the Pluralism Project does, and Interfaith America does, but perhaps most importantly, they came up with a new paradigm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">They virtually invented a term, and that term is Judeo-Christian. People think that Judeo-Christian was written on Plymouth Rock when the pilgrims arrived. It was actually invented in the 1930s, not as a theological or historical construction, because that would be inaccurate, but as a civic invention, basically, as a way to welcome Jews and Catholics into the United States, and part of what I think is lost, although it has a great book called \u201cTri-Faith America\u201d by Kevin Schultz, which tells the story, is that alongside the labor movement of the mid 20th century, probably the single most important civic movement from 1930 to 1955 in the United States is the interfaith movement alongside the labor movement.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">It actually in some ways helps till the soil for the Civil Rights movement, which takes off an earnest in the early 1950s, and, of course, lasts and defines America for the latter half of the 20th century. Part of what we hope for at Interfaith America, and why we changed the name of the organization to Interfaith America is that the combination of the growing religious diversity of the nation. You say this in \u201cNew Religious America.\u201d By the way, the funny thing is, Diana, I didn&#8217;t even go back and review your books in preparation for this. I just know them. They&#8217;re like embedded in me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">But you write about, there are almost as many Muslims in America as Methodists, and the median age of Muslims is like 20 years younger. You have a growing religious diversity. You have this ugly emergence of white Christian nationalism. Could\u00a0a paradigm-shifting moment happen today where we oppose white Christian nationalism, embrace diversity, widen our sense of we, and start to think of ourselves as the chapter beyond Judeo-Christian, which we at the organization, Interfaith America, are calling the paradigm Interfaith America.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: I think absolutely. I think that&#8217;s what needs to happen. It&#8217;s one of the things that interested me most when I started the Pluralism project. At that point, there was a research project going on basically at the University of Chicago, a very important one, on fundamentalism, the Fundamentalism Project.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Martin Marty and Scott Appleby.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: They produced some wonderful volumes, et cetera, and they wanted me to get involved a bit. I thought, well, the thing I&#8217;m most interested in is not the fundamentalist. I&#8217;m more interested in the people who are reaching out to create something with their neighbors in the United States, but elsewhere as well. Looking for those places where people were, as you say in your new book, that building something together, and the energies of the interfaith movement were really beginning at that time, local, maybe just Christian Jews and Muslims, and a few Bah\u00e1\u02bc\u00eds or something, but they were starting, and they have continued to grow.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">That part of our research has been to\u00a0look at the ways in which the interfaith movement in the United States has expanded. It is diverse. Like any movement, it has a direction toward a new paradigm, but not a particular center. But it really is an important aspect of American religious life. It&#8217;s the interfaith people who were standing up in protest when some of the hate crimes,\u00a0and slurs, and attacks on religious minorities happen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Absolutely.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: These are the people who come out. I remember, you&#8217;re going, I hear to the 10th anniversary of the shooting at the Gurdwara in Wisconsin.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: There&#8217;s a delegation from Interfaith America going.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: I remember when that happened, and in Boston, there was such a huge outcry of religious people from congregations of all stripes all over the city. Everyone crowded into Trinity Church in Copley Square, that great big cathedral of an Episcopal church wearing an orange head covering basically in solidarity with the Sikh community. That was an interfaith response to this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">But I do think that the challenge of Christian nationalism is one that deserves addressing today in its new form, not in its KKK form, but in it&#8217;s three-piece suit and tie form that includes a number of people in our government, and senators, et cetera.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: There&#8217;s plenty of pitchforks involved in Christian nationalism these days. We saw it on January 6th.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: We sure did. The other thing I would say here is that one of the case studies I continue to work around in my head is the plan for the Smithsonian to have a Festival of Faiths as the main theme next year, a year from now, of their summer festival on the mall. When there will be a display of people from various religious communities doing what they do, and showing what they show, and saying what they say, and cooking what they cook, and painting what they&#8211; a whole display of who America is on the National Mall.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">At the same time when we&#8217;ve seen the National Mall put to such other purposes, and I am thinking, &#8220;Is this going to be a festival? Is it going to be a confrontation? Is it going to be a train wreck?&#8221; It&#8217;s a real question. It&#8217;s the public question of who America is.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Diana, I think that that&#8217;s a beautiful place to leave this, because the National Mall was a place of violent, anti-democratic insurrection on January 6th, 2021, and in the summer of 2023, as you say, it&#8217;s going to be what I like to call the American potluck. It&#8217;s a place in which the distinctive identities of diverse people are welcomed as contributions. You don&#8217;t have a potluck unless people bring a dish. It&#8217;s not an interesting potluck of, everybody&#8217;s the same and brings the same dish, and the wonderful thing about a potluck is that it&#8217;s not a mayor, or a general, or a president who commands it. It&#8217;s people who do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: People who do it, right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: There&#8217;s a million ways for it to go wrong, but it almost never goes wrong. It&#8217;s the ultimate kind of civic form of diversity, and we&#8217;re going to see that on the National Mall. You and I are on that advisory committee. We&#8217;re going to see that, inshallah, in 2023, and maybe that will reintroduce religious diversity, and the attendant paradigm, mutual inquiry, a back and forth around identity, a good faith approach to the dilemmas of diversity, and a sense of seeing the beauty in one another&#8217;s difference.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Hopefully, it reintroduces that into the American conversation, and I just want to say in closing, Diana, you\u00a0for me, and for literally thousands of others, you began the conversation for us. I can&#8217;t thank you enough, not just for what you did, but for who you are, really. Thank you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Eck<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: Thank you, Eboo.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Patel<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">: How do we bring religion and religious diversity more towards the center of the multicultural conversation? It&#8217;s such an important identity to so many people in the United States, and it&#8217;s so crucial to our social fabric. To read more about this conversation, and to find resources and stories about bridge building in our religiously diverse nation, visit our website, interfaithamerica.org. I&#8217;m Eboo Patel.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:6,&quot;335551620&quot;:6,&quot;335559739&quot;:240,&quot;335559740&quot;:240}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p><p>[music]<\/p><p><em>Intro\/outro music provided by Mysterylab Music and composed by Mott Jordan.<\/em><\/p><p><em>Credit music provided by Die Hard Productions.<\/em><\/p><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t\t<div class=\"jet-unfold__separator\"><\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<div class=\"jet-unfold__trigger\"><div class=\"jet-unfold__button elementor-button elementor-size-md\" href=\"#\" data-unfold-text=\"Show More\" data-fold-text=\"Hide\" data-fold-icon=\"&lt;svg xmlns=&quot;http:\/\/www.w3.org\/2000\/svg&quot; xmlns:xlink=&quot;http:\/\/www.w3.org\/1999\/xlink&quot; xmlns:serif=&quot;http:\/\/www.serif.com\/&quot; width=&quot;100%&quot; height=&quot;100%&quot; viewBox=&quot;0 0 12 8&quot; xml:space=&quot;preserve&quot; 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